Q: For this issue of our magazine, we also spoke with one of the most prominent exponents of the human potential movement-Michael Murphy, the founder of Esalen-who believes that contemporary advances in our understanding of the workings of the human mind and body, and of how mastery is achieved, should be seen in the context of the evolution of the human race as a whole. He suggests that the pioneering efforts of extraordinary people in many fields reflect the possibility of a transformation over time of our entire species. Do you see your own work in such an evolutionary context?

DM: Sure. All things change and evolve. But I don't see theories of ultimate evolution as relevant today, now, in this moment as we face the challenges of everyday life. Michael Murphy was influenced by Sri Aurobindo, whose teachings very much involve our eventual evolution into super-conscious beings with greater powers and so forth. Anthony Robbins, a popular speaker and author, studied many different personal growth arenas and worked with businesses and sales applying what he calls "neuro-associative conditioning," another name for the NLP [Neuro-Linguistic Programming] approaches which are part of his lineage.
There is a proverb that reminds us, "One Light, but many lamps." Each of us-Michael Murphy, Anthony Robbins, myself, and many other teachers, serve as lamps for different people. This seems positive, because different people need different approaches to life. That's why we have more than one book in the library; we may enjoy different radio stations as we may prefer different teachers or teachings based upon our present values and needs-and yes, perhaps on our own current level of spiritual evolution. Those who tune in to Michael's station are a little more interested than I am in powers, or siddhis [supernormal abilities], in sports and in other realms.
With that brief tangential commentary, let me return to the topic you proposed: We humans may indeed evolve abilities of various kinds, which would be interesting. Personally, I'd enjoy the ability to levitate, but until that time I have to make do with occasional levity. I'd also like to be able to bi-locate (be in two places at once); any parent with a couple of kids can appreciate that ability. But all that has very little to do with enlightenment. Unusual powers, kundalini manifestations, kriyas [inspired trembling and spontaneous yoga postures and mudras or positions of the hands and body], and psychic abilities may represent a kind of psychophysical breakthrough or purification, but many wise and great masters didn't manifest such things. I don't think super-powers are requisites of enlightenment.
I was a gymnast and I exhibited certain "powers," and did feats that other people couldn't do. Others seemed impressed by my abilities. But they didn't have anything to do with kindness, happiness, or love. They didn't make me more enlightened. There were just functional skills. If humans can learn to throw footballs twice as far or jump higher or run faster-if our brains get more powerful or we even learn to move things with our minds-I think that's all functionally very nice. Maybe new powers would even help us to create a more enlightened society. Maybe. But I don't personally equate powers with, or regard them as precursors to, realizing the punch line to God's cosmic joke.
In Way of the Peaceful Warrior, my old mentor Socrates once said, "Your challenge is not to be extraordinary; it is to be ordinary." When author Aldous Huxley, a man who had studied many spiritual traditions and teachings, was near death, one of his students asked, After all this time, all of your studies and research and practice, what have you learned?" Huxley replied, "I'm a little embarrassed to say that I can summarize it all with the words, 'Try to be a little kinder.'" Maybe kindness is the greatest power of all.

Q: What do you see as the highest expression of human potential?

DM: Our human potential involves everything we've been talking about-awareness, kindness, humor, realizing our transcendental unity with God and with one another-and not just realizing it but living it. We tend to realize things long before we live them. We've all had realizations and understandings and insights but it can take ten years to bring even a simple insight into our life. So living our truth, doing it, not just realizing it, I would say, would be our highest potential.

Q: Are you still striving for enlightenment?

DM: No. At some point in time, I surrendered that, too. I don't know when it happened, but I became more interested in bringing smiles to other people's faces than to my own. I remember my heart now and then, and do what I do. I'm okay with the present moment. I mean that quite sincerely.