utterly impossible thing, and 20, 19, 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Wide awake! Thank you very much Doctor. This sort of up-and-down technique will often enable you to deepen the patient because it is such an easy way of repetition.

QUESTION
Doctor, how would the patient know what you're doing when you start back from 20?

ERICKSON
Ask him.

QUESTION
Will you answer that question, Doctor L? At what point, when you were walking back to your chair, were you aware that you were being spoken to by Doctor Erickson for a specific reason? At what number?

ANSWER
Around 13, I think. At about that point I couldn't move as fast and I was a fit subject for a chair!

QUESTION
Could he have resisted at any point?

ERICKSON
He could have resisted, but the situation was a good one. He was participating and it took him completely by surprise, because he thought he was just going back to the chair.

ANSWER
It was more pleasant not to resist.

QUESTION
Could you get a patient to go still deeper by telling him that you will count above 20?

ERICKSON
That can be done, but it may slow the rate of induction, If I tell a subject that at the count of 20, he will he deeply asleep, he can respond in the same way that Doctor L did. Then I can say, "Now I'm going to continue to count, and you'll go still deeper." He will then actually go deeper, but if you tell a patient that you will continue to count beyond 20 before you count to that number, he is going to hold back in reserve enough deepening to allow you to finish your count. On the other hand, if you let him give all his deepening possibilities up to 20, then count higher, his only answer is to find still further deepening possibilities.