Q: In your work, you seem to place a great deal of emphasis on the power of self-discipline, on how conscious, directed action can transform our lives. In Everyday Enlightenment, you at one point even state that "no matter what you might learn in this or any similar book, living effectively comes down to applying your will to control your behavior," which seems to be a perfect summation of the essence of self-mastery. In traditional enlightenment teachings, there is also an emphasis on the need for self-discipline or self-control, yet in those traditions, that need for self-control is always secondary to and in the service of the ultimate demand for profound surrender, for a complete relinquishing of control in order to allow a force greater than oneself to move one's life. In the end, which do you feel is more important for the individual who wants to be free: surrender or self-control?

DM: I acknowledge the spiritual supremacy of surrender. As I express in my book, The Laws of Spirit, in "The Law of Surrender," surrendering to life, to God, to this moment, can be the most assertive, creative, intelligent act anyone can do. But when I surrender, how do I know whether I'm surrendering to God or surrendering to my internal impulses? Does surrender have anything to do with doing what I think is best in the moment? If somebody is yelling at me, and my impulse is to not be kind but I'm kind, did I just surrender to God or did I apply my will? Thus, surrender versus applying one's will remains a paradox. If God is in me, then is not my will also God's will? This is delicate and shaky ground, for we cannot ultimately know what is for our highest good or learning, or for the highest good for all concerned. Still, free will is a God-given ability, and I believe that it is important that we apply our will-to use our intelligence and our awareness in doing what seems best in each moment. Doing what is best may in a sense also be surrendering to our higher will or a higher will. So do we call it self-control or surrender? When we pray, "Thy will be done," is Thy will necessarily or always different from my will?
Surrender may be an ultimate spiritual practice, but how we apply it is an artful process, I think. In the same way, it is easy to advise people to, "Be kind," but it takes wisdom to know what kind of behavior constitutes "kindness" in a given situation. Some of us tend to do things like help old ladies across the street without noticing whether they actually wanted to cross. Or if our spouse is upset with us, do we remain calm and smile blissfully and calmly at them? That may not, in reflection, be the kindest thing to do. It may be kinder to yell back if they want to engage you with passion. So surrender, like kindness, is an artful process that requires awareness, patience, and practice.

Q: In your chapter, "Reclaim Your Will," you make an interesting distinction. You state that if we want to change the course of our lives, there are two routes we can take. One, "you can direct your energy and attention towards trying to fix your mind, find your focus, affirm your power, free your emotions and visualize positive outcomes so that you can finally develop the confidence to display the courage, to discover the determination, to make the commitment, to feel sufficiently motivated to do what it is you need to do." Or, two, "you can just do it." Now, the first approach appears to be much more popular, yet the second option obviously sounds preferable. What changes within the individual who makes that decision to "just do it"?

DM: Most of us learn to "just do it" after exhausting all the other short-cuts and easy ways and psychological tricks and motivational techniques don't work. After we've used up our subliminal tapes, self-hypnosis, affirmations, visualizations, inspirational speakers, encouraging words, positive self-talk, we are left with the existential question, "Will I do it, or not?" We finally confront reality. Ultimately, we don't have to "reclaim our will" or "find our confidence" or "develop our discipline." We don't even have to believe we can do it or say we can do it. We just have to do it. Doing what needs doing doesn't require any internal state or feeling. You just have to do it. But we have this persistent hope, this stubborn wish, that we will find a shortcut, an easier way. We'd rather work on our insides for a few days or years or lifetimes. But what does life come down to? How do we turn what we know into what we actually do? One reviewer of my book said, "Millman's much too simplistic. For addicts, he recommends they "just stop" rather than finding a proper treatment program." In reality, I do recommend treatment programs for some people. But it still comes to this: Whether we do a twelve-step program, join Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, or receive the help of friends and family, or just hit bottom, or get frightened enough or inspired enough to finally confront our life, everyone stops addictive behaviors in exactly the same way: They just stop. For some people it takes many intermediate steps. I suggest it saves some time and some pain to finally face that we can control our behavior-how we move our arms and legs-what we do. It can be incredibly difficult at times, but there is a vast difference between difficult and impossible. Even if we don't feel like doing it-even if we feel terrible, physically or emotionally, for a while, we can stop any way. As far as what brings people to that critical point of realization-just do it-when we're ready to hear it, we'll do it. Until then, we will spend endless hours working on the internal solutions whether couched in psychological or New Age mythology.

Q: This willingness to "just do it" seems to be an important dimension of self-mastery according to nearly everyone we've spoken with for this issue. Do you think the "just do it" approach is also an ingredient of enlightenment?

DM: I wonder if the people at Nike realized what a profound slogan they were popularizing. "Just do it" serves as a foundation element in the "practice of enlightenment" as I describe it in Everyday Enlightenment. It involves the recognition that we can, and ultimately must, control our own behavior-but we can also do so under the dominion of our will or a higher will working through us. "Surrendering to God" or surrendering to a higher will is another way of saying, "Bring out the best and the highest within you; connect to the divine power, wisdom, and love inside and let it expand into the world." So ultimately, "just doing it" and "surrendering to God" may serve the same ends. Both are keys to what I call the "practice of everyday enlightenment," but "just doing it" is a bit easier to understand and apply.